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Post by nomad on Feb 18, 2017 16:35:55 GMT
A cabinet drawer of Arctia caja, all bred by one collector, showing the variation he achieved with this species.
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Post by trehopr1 on Feb 19, 2017 4:30:22 GMT
Absolutely incredible tiger moth species ! Has always been at the top of my list for its genuine beauty as well as variable forms and aberrations. We have it here "across the pond" as well; in our New England states and some of the Upper Great Lakes states. Not present in Illinois where I live however, there is another exceedingly nice species of arctiid called the Virgo Tiger Moth (Grammia virgo) which is present here and there. That species also varies with some forms and aberrations known but, to a lesser degree than Arctia caja. Virgo is always a most exciting find when it does show up.
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Post by Ed on Feb 19, 2017 5:01:42 GMT
Amazing Moth, Its also supposedly found north of me in Tien Shan.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Feb 19, 2017 5:12:43 GMT
Tien Shan is very far west of you as well as north. The westernmost part of Xinjiang is basically the eastern end of that mountain range, most of which is in the Central Asian states.
Adam.
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Post by Ed on Feb 19, 2017 5:21:19 GMT
Yes Adam, you are correct Tien Shan is very far from me. I am still able to occasionally find other Tiger moth species in the local mountains.
Ed.
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Post by Ed on Feb 19, 2017 5:40:18 GMT
This is one of the ones I've found, not sure of the species though!?
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Post by Ed on Feb 19, 2017 5:45:24 GMT
Here is the verso.
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ciervo
Aurelian
Posts: 161
Country: Australia
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Post by ciervo on Feb 19, 2017 7:59:55 GMT
Not even close
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Post by Ed on Feb 19, 2017 8:26:49 GMT
By sharing a picture of one of the Tiger Moths I've collected, I did not mean to Imply they are similar at all. As I said "This is one of the ones I've found" I realize they are not the same species or similar. Ed.
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ciervo
Aurelian
Posts: 161
Country: Australia
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Post by ciervo on Feb 19, 2017 20:15:24 GMT
Thanks for clarifying. I wonder if there's some mimicry at play here.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 23:18:21 GMT
Thanks for clarifying. I wonder if there's some mimicry at play here. The common name may be your first clue
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Post by Ed on Feb 20, 2017 9:08:12 GMT
Thanks for clarifying. I wonder if there's some mimicry at play here. No problem, as you can see by the coloration they contain toxins. So I dont think there is a need for either of the two moths to mimic other moths, as a non-edible moth mimiking a non-edible moth would not be useful, it would be much more likely for a edible moth to mimic a non-edible moth.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Feb 20, 2017 13:40:57 GMT
Actually, there are good reasons why two distasteful species mimic each other, particularly because predators (birds etc) only need to learn to avoid one colour pattern rather than two different ones. This is called Mullerian mimicry, as opposed to Batesian mimicry in which an edible species mimics a distasteful one. There are many examples of Mullerian mimicry across the world of Lepidoptera and in other animals.
Adam.
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Post by Ed on Feb 20, 2017 14:00:28 GMT
Actually, there are good reasons why two distasteful species mimic each other, particularly because predators (birds etc) only need to learn to avoid one colour pattern rather than two different ones. This is called Mullerian mimicry, as opposed to Batesian mimicry in which an edible species mimics a distasteful one. There are many examples of Mullerian mimicry across the world of Lepidoptera and in other animals. Adam. Just learned something new, thanks Adam. Are there any examples of Mullerian mimicry in butterflies that you could give? Ed.
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Post by Paul K on Feb 20, 2017 14:41:24 GMT
Troides species for one of many examples which Adam can explaine more here, but this is something I just came across with : Calinaga sudassana and Parantica sita, they are both distasteful and occur in same habitat And there are Papilio agestor and Hestinalis nama which mimic those two but this is the batesian mimicry as they are good to eat.
Paul
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